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TIME

TRANSCRIPT

0:09

Welcome to today's webinar Enbridge Line 5 trouble under the surface I'm Liz

0:14

Kirkwood executive director of flow for love of water Great Lakes water law

0:20

policy Center based here in Traverse City Michigan I'd like to begin our event by

0:26

sharing a water and land acknowledgement for love of water is

0:34

located on lands historically occupied by the Annishabec Odawa Ojibwe and Potawami

0:41

Nations please take a moment to acknowledge and honor the ancestral lands of the Three Fires Confederacy the

0:49

sacred lands and Waters of all indigenous peoples and their continued

0:55

presence I am thrilled to present this webinar with our partners at the oil and

1:01

water don't mix campaign today you're part of an amazing live event and live

1:08

audience of over 700 people who care deeply about Line 5 the Great Lakes

1:14

State and tribal sovereignty energy and water security and climate change we're

1:21

grateful for your time and interest and we're delighted to be able to reach you through this free webinar supported by a

1:28

generous gift from the Mackinac Island Community Foundation today's webinar is the latest

1:34

in an ongoing series of Line 5 programming by connecting you with our

1:39

outstanding panel of legal and policy experts we hope you'll come away from

1:44

today's event more informed and inspired to take action events like ours today

1:51

are important because Enbridge doesn't want people to know the truth about the condition of the pipeline before

1:56

Michigan took Enbridge secort in 2019 Enbridge knowingly lied to state and

2:02

federal Regulators for years about the dangerous failing nature of the

2:07

pipeline Enbridge doesn't want you to know that a Line 5 shutdown will not

2:13

send fuel prices soaring independent expert analysis has found that with

2:19

advanced notice and planning energy markets will adapt without shortages or Price

2:24

spikes Enbridge doesn't want you to think about how its giant new fossil

2:32

fuel projects like the proposed tunnel under the Mao Straits and the Wisconsin 41 mile reroute are completely at odds

2:40

with state federal and international goals to decarbonize and stem climate change and Enbridge definitely doesn't

2:47

want you to know that it is threatened by public pressure but that's why it's blanketing Michigan and Wisconsin with

2:56

ads that are a master class in greenwashing in the span of just one month in early 2024 Enbridge spent over

3:03

$100,000 on Facebook and Instagram targeting Michigan Wisconsin and Washington DC Enbridge has unparalleled

3:11

Financial Resources to throw behind its effort to extract profit until every last ounce of Alberta tar Sands has been

3:19

transported refined burnt and sent Skyward into our Global Greenhouse this is what we're up against

3:25

but we are here to get into it and talk about where we are and where we go

3:30

from here I'd like to introduce our masterful moderator Skip Pruss who is

3:36

Flo's senior legal adviser and an energy expert with Decades of experience in

3:42

both the public and private sector welcome Skip thank you Liz welcome

3:48

everybody um before we get started and I introduce our panelist today I want to

3:54

give you a very brief history of the twin 20-inch pipelines that Traversee The

4:00

Straits of MAA and sort of provide a context for today's discussion

4:07

so Line 5 in these segments will soon be 72 years old and what we know about

4:13

these pipelines and what we're learning more all the time is deeply concerning

4:18

for the first 50 years these pipelines were essentially forgotten and ignored

4:25

it wasn't until 2001 when Enbridge started filing a series of quote

4:33

emergency unquote permits with the state in order to to support the pipeline um

4:41

it was they learned that it was elevated there were stretches of the pipeline that were suspended over the lake bed

4:48

for more than 200 feet that shouldn't have happened it wasn't part of the engineering

4:55

design the 1953 engineering analysis which for the time seemed remarkably

5:00

thorough was explicit in stating that the pipeline would sit on the lake

5:07

bottom that there would be very few chasms to cross and any depressions

5:14

beneath the pipeline could be filled in that is not what happened the 1953

5:20

engineering analysis didn't have data there were no data about erosion of the lake bed from

5:26

High Velocity Cur currents and so there was never an analysis of of the

5:33

scour and erosion that would take place on the lake so let's move forward in time today

5:41

there are 220 what are called screw saddle anchor systems that Enbridge has

5:47

installed to that suspend the pipeline over the lake

5:53

bed for approximately 3 miles of its length including directly below the

5:59

shipping channel the pipeline is now extremely vulnerable to Anchor strikes

6:05

and being hit by ships cables and predictably that is exactly what has

6:12

occurred we've only been looking at Line 5 the straight segment since 2012

6:17

when when Beth Wallace from the National Wildlife Federation issued the report

6:24

sunken hazards so in this 12 years of public scrutiny we've seen the pipeline

6:30

get struck by anchors both pipelines have been dented the protective coding

6:37

has been damaged um we have seen high voltage transmission cables

6:43

severed by anchor strikes and the release of 800 gallons we know this of

6:49

dialectric fluid which is a chemical compound consisting of semi um volatile

6:54

organic compounds um we've

7:02

seen we found two anchors proximate to the pipeline one of them being a 15,000

7:08

PB anchor very very heavy we know that the maintenance work and the

7:14

installation of the sadle anchor systems and the geotechnical work for the tunnel

7:20

uh that Enbridge has conducted through contracted ships have also struck the

7:25

pipeline as well so

7:31

um there are multiple multiple threats and the potential of an anchor strike is

7:37

not speculative looking at Federal records we understand that there have

7:43

been at least 22 instances where anchors have struck submerged oil pipelines

7:51

resulting in severing of the pipeline and releasing oil to water and we recently learned that it's not the case

7:58

that only one or two Great Lakes freighter lose propul propulsion and and

8:04

power and steering in the Great Lakes in any particular season and have to throw an anchor that

8:12

happens on average 20 times per year meanwhile the scour and erosion of

8:18

the lake bed is persistent and pervasive and it requires the continuing addition

8:24

of anchor supports this was never contemplated this is not part of the engineering

8:29

design um and it's made the pipeline much more complex and much more subject

8:36

to failure modes so with that I'm going to move to introducing our panelists

8:44

that we have today the first panelist is Riyaz Kanji delighted that he has joined

8:49

us he is the founding member of Kanji and Katson a firm whose mission is to

8:57

advance tribal sovereignty he's a graduate of Harvard College and Yale law school riia served as a law clerk for

9:03

Justice Supreme Court Justice David Avid sudor and currently Riyaz represents the

9:08

ban River ban in the fight against Line 5 in northern Wisconsin welcome

9:15

rias Sean McBrearty is the campaign coordinator for oil and water don't mix

9:21

and the Michigan director of the Michigan clean water action Sean works on water infrastructure oil and gas and

9:27

drinking water issues Sean has served as a leader in the campaign to De

9:36

decommission Enbridge's Line 5 pipeline for the last six years Mahyar suu is the director of the

9:45

Beyond fossil fuel policy at at the Sierra Club Mahaya lead Sierra club's federal

9:50

policy team based in Washington DC she manages the development and implementation of legislative and

10:00

administrative Advocate efforts within the Sierra clubs Beyond dirty fuels campaign welcome Sean welcome Mahyar

10:05

um before we start just want to remind folks that you can you can type

10:15

in your questions text in your questions to us and we will get to as many questions as possible so first um RI can

10:23

you give us an overview of the state and federal litigation and particularly the bad River litigation where you know

10:28

finally we've had some success thank you Skip and I want to

10:36

thank Flo for organizing another terrific webinar and to thank everyone for joining it's always wonderful to

10:42

have such robust audience for these sessions and always look forward to

10:48

the the terrific questions I will summarize both the Michigan and and bad

10:56

River litigations briefly I it the timing of this webinar is terrific

11:04

because on the Michigan front and Skip with your permission I'll start with Michigan we have you know

11:09

finally unequivocal good news out of the the six circuit the federal court of

11:17

appeals for the six circuit that attorney general Nestle's lawsuit against Enbridge will be returning to

11:23

State Court last Friday the six circuit reaffirmed its decision that

11:30

judge nef the the federal district court judge had no business keeping the Attorney General's case in in federal

11:36

court Enbridge blew a deadline to remove the case to Federal Court by over two

11:42

years and the the six circuit has spoken very clearly its mandate will

11:47

issue this coming Friday and I would expect that judge yoner who's the new

11:53

federal trial court judge on the matter will then send the case back to State

12:00

Court expeditiously so that Labor Day I think will Mark a re set in the

12:07

Attorney General's case in Michigan and will Mark a period of time where what

12:12

should have happened all along and of course it's frustrating that we've lost time but that's water under the bridge

12:18

at this point the state will now be able to litigate its claims against

12:23

Enbridge Over The Straits Crossing which are state law claims in State

12:30

Court just one parenthetical I sus I imagine that Enbridge will seek to take

12:36

the six circuits decision up to the Supreme Court that will be nothing there are no guarantees in life for in

12:42

litigation but that will be nothing but a waste of time that's the the

12:48

the question about whether enridge blew a deadline or not is not a supreme court worthy question so the case will be

12:56

going back to to state court the before the case was rested out of Judge

13:03

J's hands um there had already been in a considerable briefing on the the core

13:09

issue in the Attorney General's case which is whether when the state issued the

13:15

easement Across The Straits of MAA in the early 1950s whether that action was

13:22

consistent with the public trust Doctrine or not a Doctrine which is court of flows Mission and and

13:30

Central to the attorney general's case so that that issue's already been briefed up and Enbridge is he defense

13:37

which is that regardless of what the public trust Doctrine says the Attorney General's action is preempted by various

13:44

forms of federal law including statute and including the 1977 Canada US treaty

13:49

that issue has also been briefed up I suspect imagine that since that

13:55

briefing took place several years ago judge J may ask for supplemental

14:02

briefing the parties may want to update those briefs but but the core legal issues in the case

14:09

uh you know should be teed up um for his his decision making you know within a

14:17

matter now of months not of of years so if you detect some excitement in my voice it's because you know finally we

14:22

may get to decisions on the merits with respect to the attorney general's case

14:28

uh sooner rather than than later one other parenthetical on the Michigan case

14:34

because you will you you have seen and we'll see some press reports about this Enbridge does have a parallel action in

14:40

federal court in front of judge yoner um that is really nothing more in my mind

14:48

than a a nuisance lawsuit nuisance not in terms of environmental nuisance nuisance in terms of being a pest um

14:55

Enbridge raises in that federal case all the same defenses that are at play in the in the state court I think at

15:03

this point the state court action will be further ahead in time than that Federal action and that's where we are

15:12

likely to see decisions going to the substance of the Attorney General's claims um first and foremost so we have

15:20

those developments on the on the Michigan side positive developments and then in the in our bad River case

15:25

presently we are awaiting a decision from the United States court of appeals

15:32

for the the seventh circuit based in based in Chicago arguments in in in

15:39

the appeal were held in February many people attended which we appreciated the

15:44

in the wake of that argument the circuit reiterated its request to the United

15:52

States to file a brief on the key issues in the case the United States had stayed silent even in the face of the

15:59

Circuit Court inviting its views ahead of argument and so on April the 8th

16:05

the United States ended up filing a brief on on some of the key issues and and we're now awaiting a decision and

16:10

just as a a sort of a a reminder there really three key issues that are in

16:18

front of the the circuit court on the appeal the first and and most important is the question whether the

16:24

injunction deadline that um that judge Conley set for the shutdown of of the

16:30

pipeline which is June 16th 2026 whether that date will stick or not judge

16:37

Conley issued that shutdown order because of Enbridge's ongoing trespass on the bad River Reservation Enbridge

16:43

has argued that the that that the date should be lifted that there is no trespass and that even if there is a

16:50

trespass it's entitled to continue trespassing until such time that it builds a reroute or not around the

16:56

reservation the to our disappointment and we'll I know we'll talk about the United States some today to our

17:01

disappointment the United States wa in and said well there are a lot of factors

17:08

and we know the band has treaty rights and there's this treaty with Canada and we think you should send this back to

17:15

the district court to sort of re-evaluate that that June 2026 date we of course argue that that that should be

17:21

the latest possible date for a shutdown and and and that it fact in fact should be tightened um but the point I want to

17:26

make here today is that if the court of appeals affirms that June 2026 date

17:33

that's really in the terms of the lifp of of this litigation and the lifespan of the pipeline that is not

17:40

that far away that date is starting to feel very real there will need to be steps that Enbridge and that the

17:47

governments federal and state governments need to take to ensure the shutdown of the pipeline and pressure

17:55

uh from Advocate groups and the public to ensure that those steps are taken will be very important to making

18:01

making that that date stick so that's one issue on appeal the second is whether judge the other part of Judge

18:08

Conley's order where he provided for an earlier shutdown if the bad River continues to progress towards the the

18:13

pipeline it's now 11et away he said if it gets to 5 feet away the pipeline

18:19

needs to shut down immediately whether the circuit will uphold that

18:25

part of his injunction the United States again disappointed us there by um

18:31

arguing in its brief that federal law displaces the Ban's ability to to get

18:39

that sort of nuisance injunction from the the the district court and the third and final issue is whether Enbridge

18:45

will be required to pay a robust amount of restitution for the ban for

18:51

the trespass and that's important in terms of deterring um deterring you know

18:58

future trespasses by companies like Enbridge across tribal and other lands so those are the issues that are teed up

19:05

for a resolution I would expect that we'll have a decision from the circuit within the next couple months you know

19:11

almost certainly by the end of the year but there's no fixed timeline for that decision

19:18

making so RI they Enbridge wants to reroute the

19:23

pipeline around the reservation um just assuming that they

19:29

were able to do that looking at the the pipeline Hol istically running from

19:38

Wisconsin to Sarnia Ontario you know what is the prospect for what

19:45

what is the condition of that pipeline after 72 years and you know and the threat that the rest of the pipeline

19:50

poses not just the you know bad river river section or the straight segment

19:58

but the pipeline as a whole well it's an excellent question Skip because you know we tend to focus on the Straits and on

20:05

the the bad River Reservation because that's where there's ongoing litigation but the the situation at bad

20:10

river is instructive as to the risks across the 640 M stretch of the pipeline

20:18

the slide we have in front of us and it's it's difficult to decipher quickly but this shows the migration of the bad

20:23

River towards the pipeline the blue the main blue is where the river was when

20:31

the pipeline was laid in 1953 and the river and the pipeline were separated there by 350 ft and if we go to the next

20:37

slide we will see that because of the natural migration of the river over time

20:44

what we now have is you can see the bank of the river there and the red line is is the pipeline right of away and the

20:49

river is now only 11 feet away from the pipeline so that's the that's the

20:54

natural erosion we've seen over time and that's what led judge Conley to say if

21:00

it gets much closer if it gets to 5et the pipeline has to shut down last

21:05

spring in the spring of 2023 11 ft the remaining distance 11 feet of bank was

21:13

lost in one week's worth of flooding so we're really very close this spring was a dry spring there was no migration um

21:18

but easily in one week next spring we could we could lose that remaining Bank

21:24

what has happened at bad River with the migration this is not the only place

21:31

where this is happening Line 5 crosses four 400 rivers and streams

21:37

on its path from Superior to Saria many of those rivers and streams are

21:44

in the in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where the rivers or streams crossed flow into either Lake Superior

21:51

or Lake Michigan line Line 5's route um in in in the upper peninsula

22:00

goes within two miles of the Lake Michigan Shoreline where I think of where Us 2 is and and this location

22:06

the bad River location because of our litigation is far more monitored and scrutinized than many of these other

22:12

Crossings so the what we've seen at bad River um could easily be taking place at

22:20

other locations and and and one could have that sort of rupture there and I think that's a a risk that is

22:25

underestimated and that we we don't necessarily pay enough attention

22:32

to thank you so much riia Sean move moving to you um Enbridge with all its

22:39

resources really has been able to control the the narrative um can

22:45

you elaborate on the various vulnerabilities of Line 5 and and the

22:50

risk and the consequences um of a pipeline failure a

22:57

breach yeah absolutely thanks Skip and thanks for having me today um so you

23:02

know this has been so far over a decade long effort in both Michigan and

23:07

Wisconsin we've been able to gather um lots of facts and information about line

23:14

five and over the last um you know over a decade on this issue we've seen

23:22

Enbridge continuously change their story it's like playing whack-a-mole um really so

23:29

you know at first for instance you know so Enbridge has been really working to control the n here what we know about

23:35

the risks of the pipeline are very clear this pipeline was intended to last 50

23:43

years um you know it's now 71 years old um we've seen that the last time so when

23:50

Governor Whitmer had the Michigan Department of Natural Resources look into the history of

23:55

the 1953 easement which let Enbridge operate Across The Straits of Mao the

24:02

public trust owned public trust land there um that easement it turns out the last

24:09

time Enbridge was actually in compliance with the easement was in 1968 um we've seen a history along this

24:16

route that includes over 33 separate oil spills totaling over a million gallons of oil spilled from this pipeline

24:22

already um we've been lucky that there hasn't been a major spill in The Straits

24:27

so far and as you know you and RI both discussed a little bit Skip we've

24:34

you know we've really seen over the years several opportunities for that to happen including the 2018 anchor strike

24:40

um you know another big risk with this pipeline is purely Enbridge and their

24:46

track record Enbridge has a really negative track record that not that

24:52

includes not only the two largest Inland oil spills in US history um and you know

24:58

touching for a moment on the kalamazo oil spill um here in Michigan in that

25:03

spill it took enri 17 hours to shut down their pipeline their Command Center

25:09

misread their own equipment and they thought initially that what was a break

25:16

in the side of the pipeline was actually blockage so they increased pressure and ran the pipeline for 17 hours nobody

25:22

bothered to check nobody was thinking of the safety of the community nobody was thinking of the safety of our environment at Enbridge they were

25:28

thinking they needed to get their oil to Market and so they pushed you know they wound up pushing more oil through a

25:34

broken pipeline in kalamazo nothing has changed at Enbridge since then what we

25:40

saw in 2018 when a tugboat anchor very nearly cut through the Line 5

25:46

pipeline put putting three big gashes in the line in the Straits what we saw

25:51

then was it took Enbridge two weeks to get a remotely operated vehicle down to the bottom of the Straits and get an eye

25:58

on the pipeline why did it take them two weeks because their ROV was in Florida they didn't have one they don't

26:04

have you know the common respect for a place that they're operating to even have a vehicle that can survey their

26:10

pipeline here in Michigan where it could be immediately used um so things at

26:16

Enbridge have not changed it's they have a culture um at Enbridge that does not

26:21

take safety seriously and that's why they're continuing to run a 70 plus year

26:28

old pipeline through the great lakes in the Straits we see lots of problems that have also been identified um

26:35

not only the risk due to Anchor strikes but the changed structure of the pipeline itself with these support

26:41

anchors and Saddles which are currently anchoring the pipeline to the bottomlands that were never actually

26:47

designed to go with this Pipeline and there's never been an engineering analysis about whether taking a

26:54

structure that's meant to sit on the bottom lands and intentionally elevating it um could actually be done safely we

27:01

see new bends in the pipeline likely caused by the fact that Enbridge has been out of compliance with their

27:08

easement as far as span lengths of pipeline that have been unsupported for

27:15

long amounts of time and also possibly due to the new screw anchor design that nobody ever bothered to study um there's

27:22

you know all of these huge risks associated with the pipeline and with it running 23 million gallons a day um you

27:29

know the some of the worst case scenario spill numbers that we look at are if it was the size of the missus spill a one

27:34

one to 1.1 million gallon spill if they let this pipeline run for 17 hours after

27:42

a spill it could be orders of magnitude larger um so we're really looking at a big problem Enbridge also so Enbridge

27:49

Inc being the parent company up in Canada has over 200 subsidiaries um subsidiaries actually

27:56

own Line 5 but profits flow up to Enbridge Inc liability remains with the

28:02

subsidiaries so if there's a major spill um and you know a study that the Attorney General's office commissioned

28:07

in 2019 showed that the two subsidiaries that own Line 5 actually

28:14

don't have their required $ 1.87 eight billion dollar in liquid assets on hand

28:21

to cover the cost of a spill um so the cost of a spill which by the way would be a lot more than $1.8 billion doll

28:27

Flo has done some excellent analysis on that um along with Dr Robbie Richardson

28:35

at Michigan State um but if if there were to be a spill that the the cost

28:42

for the bill would likely Fall on Michigan taxpayers because Enbridge wouldn't be able to pay um you know so

28:49

we're dealing with this culture of corruption at Enbridge we're dealing with a 71y old Pipeline with numerous

28:57

safety issues and violations already and you know we're dealing with a company that a lawless company at this

29:02

point that is not only trespassing on bad River territory in Wisconsin but

29:10

is also operating in Michigan without a valid easement for operating Across The Straits of maeno um and Enbridge as

29:16

you mentioned Skip has also been able to control the narrative to a large degree here um you know when I said earlier

29:22

it's like playing wack and mo with Enbridge if you go back to their arguments initially it was that line

29:30

five was a very safe pipeline they in insisted that until the anchor Struck it um and they also were claiming at one

29:36

point that they provide 80% of the propane to the Upper Peninsula well you know upon studying we found out that

29:42

number is actually closer to 65% which sounds like a lot Until you realize that

29:51

out of the 130,000 is households in the up about 30,000 of them rely on

29:58

propane and out of that 30 30,000 is about 12,000

30:06

um I'm sorry I'm sorry 20 I'm sry 20,000 is rely on propane for heating about 12,000 of those rely on propane that was

30:12

once years ago provided by Line 5 so that's technically about 65% accurate

30:19

but 12,000 households is a very small amount of propane in the long run and companies in the up that actually

30:25

provide the propane are already adapting when it comes to other options for Line 5 um there's lots of other options

30:32

out there first of all and and Sean let me let me ask you about that because this is an audience question so while

30:38

we continue to litigate the shutdown of Line 5 why not support the building of the

30:45

tunnel yeah thank you very much Skip so the building of the tunnel there's there's several flaws with this plan um

30:51

I'm gon to start out with the very big p big picture flaw and then we'll get into some of the more granular ones the

30:58

really big picture flaw is that we're in the middle of a climate crisis um now you know one of our colleagues is very

31:04

fond of using this analogy could you imagine 10 years down the road from now it's

31:10

2035 what things are going to look like in the in the in the in the world globally in the as we deal with the

31:19

climate crisis having a ribbon cutting ceremony for an oil tunnel underneath the Great Lakes um it just doesn't now

31:24

is not the time there never really was a time that would be good good idea to put an oil pipeline underneath the

31:30

Great Lakes when we get to the big picture but so number number one we'll get into this later the it's

31:37

unnecessary to build a pipeline to build the tunnel because we don't actually need the product coming from

31:42

Line 5 there are multiple industry studies that back that up that

31:49

have been used in court and actually in the bad River case Enbridge's experts essentially agreed with our experts so

31:55

Enbridge you know when they're not under oath and their propaganda machine is running here in Michigan and spending

32:01

millions of dollars lying to the Michigan public um Enbridge says things like you know

32:07

they claim they're essentially going to be an apocalypse if we shut down this pipeline but when their experts have to testify under oath under penalty of

32:14

perjury they say that if the pipeline had to be shut down immediately it might cost up to half a cent a gallon in

32:21

Regional gas prices nothing because there's other options readily available which we'll get into speaking of the

32:27

tunnel again so back to the specifics of the tunnel experts in tunneling

32:35

have serious questions as to whether or not this tunnel could actually be built Enbridge has done about one tenth of the

32:40

industry recommended geotechnical research in that on Tenth of the research that they did looking into the

32:46

Rock they're intending to drill through they found that over half of the of

32:51

the rock samples that they took rated somewhere between poor and very poor for

32:58

drilling they found out that the water infiltration they should expect into the tunnel during construction is actually

33:03

the same as the water infiltration you would expect through gravel not Bedrock because they're not actually drilling

33:09

through bedrock they'll be drilling through they'll be mixed faac tunneling through this which is the most complex

33:15

type of tunneling there is um they're also they've also done nothing um to

33:22

address the fact that they found methane in the groundwater as they were doing their again 10% of the industry

33:29

recommended research the largest tunneling accident in Michigan history was back in 197 73 when they were

33:35

drilling a new water intake tunnel under Lake Huron and the crew drilling the

33:42

tunnel unfortunately somebody dropped a drill or something after they had struck a methane pocket the blast killed

33:48

23 workers um you know if we see something like that with Line 5

33:54

not only could we have they're intending again to drill this underneath an existing operating oil pipeline not only

34:00

could we see a giant oil spill into the Straits if they hit a methane pocket and they have not done the required research

34:06

to show that they won't hit a methane pocket but we'll also potentially see loss of life inside the tunnel and

34:12

nobody wants that to happen um there's all sorts of things with the tunnel that just haven't been Enbridge hasn't

34:18

answered the questions um as one of our experts is fond of saying Enbridge Enbridge has no history of building

34:23

tunnels they are ditch diggers they dig six feet down put a pipeline in the

34:29

ground and cover it with dirt when they've had to do more than that when they've done Directional Drilling in

34:36

Minnesota in the summer of 2021 when they forced line three through indigenous lands um there their

34:43

directional drilling techniques failed over half the time they breached Artisan aquifers they had drilling mud spills

34:48

left and right um you know it was Keystone Cops up there with Enbridge these are the people who were going to

34:53

trust to build a tunnel under over 90% of the world's fresh water okay Sean

34:59

America's fresh water doesn't make sense thank you thanks to you and oil and

35:06

water don't mix for all all the expertise that you have just a quick question from the audience can you

35:12

reiterate Enbridge has has Enbridge hit the pipelines themselves while surveying for their tunnel proposal the

35:19

answer is yes they they did they also Tangled a cable with an anchor support

35:25

and pulled it out of position that has happened a number of times also a

35:31

ship under contract to Enbridge struck the MAA bridge and four crewmen

35:37

were injured so yeah it's it's um

35:45

as the National Transportation safety board chair said there're a bunch of Keystone Cops that's a quote so moving

35:51

on Mahyar um you in in the

35:57

campaign Beyond fossil fuels you spend a lot of time in Washington DC can you go

36:02

over the efforts that you have led and the delegations that you have led to

36:08

various federal agencies in support of shutting down line

36:14

five sure thank you Skip and and thanks Flo for hosting this webinar today hi

36:22

everyone my name is Mahyar seru I'm the director of Beyond fossil fuels policy at the Sierra Club and and so glad to be

36:28

here with you all today so as my colleagues have laid out we know Line 5 is an aging deteriorating unsafe

36:33

oil pipeline that poses catastrophic risks to the treaty protected lands

36:40

pristine natural resources valuable freshwater sources including the 400

36:45

Rivers streams and wetlands and farmland that it cuts through we know a pipeline

36:52

failure in the heart of the Great Lakes threatens the drinking water of millions of people this is why a coordinated and

36:57

collaborative focus on the Biden Harris Administration is needed to end this

37:04

threat the Great Lakes our climate and tribal sovereignty we know the Great Lakes is a National Treasure and and it

37:10

must be prot protected and so the movement to shutdown Line 5 has been growing due to the efforts of folks on

37:16

the ground in Michigan and Wisconsin who have been leading the way but we know to

37:22

win this campaign must be elevated at a national level just like the fights have

37:27

on Keystone XL and the Dakota access pipeline just as President Biden revoke

37:34

the presidential permit for the Keystone XL pipeline he can revoke the presidential permit for Line 5 and

37:39

shut this pipeline down but our efforts to make the case to revoke the

37:46

presidential permit continue to be an uphill battle as there have been concerns raised around what impact

37:53

shutting down Line 5 will have on our national security and specifically our relationships with Canada but as long as

37:59

we as a country rely on volatile Global commodities ities like oil and gas will

38:07

always be vulnerable to the whims of greedy fossil fuel companies who continue to lie and cheat their way to

38:14

prolong the dependence of fossil fuels just like Enbridge that is why Investments we've seen across the

38:21

country in clean energy will increase our energy Supply and help accelerate the production of Cheaper cleaner energy

38:29

here at home we know the best way to achieve energy Independence is to invest in wind and solar and clean energy here

38:34

in the United States but besides our efforts to stop the the um to shut down

38:41

Line 5 and and revoke the presidential permit we know there are multiple Federal intervention points to

38:47

stop this pipeline the Army Corps of Engineers is currently seeking comments for its draft environmental assessment

38:54

for end Bridges Line 5 in northern Wisconsin and thanks to the leadership of congressional Champions National and

39:00

Grassroots organizations we have seen Outreach to the Army Corps naming the

39:05

inadequacies of this draft EA calling on the Army Corps to include climate

39:12

impacts oil spills and impacts on indigenous tribal lands for the full route of Line 5 and we know

39:19

ultimately the Army Corps of Engineers must conduct a full environmental impact statement for the reroute in Wisconsin

39:27

not just this inadequate EA and the same goes for our advocacy for the tunnel project in Michigan we know the scope

39:34

that the Army Corps is already released for looking at the Eis the environmental impact statement for the tunnel project

39:40

is inadequate and the risks associated with building a tunnel to surround Line 5 in the Straits of Mackinac are too

39:47

high ultimately the Army Corps of Engineers has the authority to reject permits for both the tunnel in Michigan

39:53

and the reroute in Wisconsin and there's been a growing number of congressional members who've been speaking out against

40:01

the dangers of Line 5 but that number must keep growing growing and go further than just the Michigan and Wisconsin

40:08

Congressional delegations as we nationalize the Line 5 campaign and other federal agencies besides the Army

40:14

Corps have a role to play here the Environmental Protection Agency the Council on Environmental Quality both

40:21

have opportunities to use their oversight Authority on the Army Corps process and ensure the process they're

40:27

taking with the reroute and the tunnel project are adequate with cqs most recent National environment Al Policy

40:35

Act regulations we know federal agencies like the Army Corps must consider the indirect direct and cumulative impacts

40:43

as they permit projects and that climate and environmental justice are key pillars in agency decision-making and as

40:50

the federal agency in charge of pipeline safety the pipeline and hazardous materials safety administration fimsa

40:58

must have a more robust emergency response plan because we know it's not a matter of if the 5 pipeline will have a

41:05

failure and leak in the Great Lakes it's a matter of when and when we talk about what a transition to a clean energy

41:11

future looks like that transition means having a plan for decommissioning old

41:18

deteriorating pipelines which we in the United States do not have a plan for and because our we know our vision for our

41:24

future is not building more tunnels around pipelines or extending the lifeline of a pipeline to lock us into

41:31

to fossil fuel dependence for decades to come it's harnessing the federal investments from the infrastructure law

41:40

the climate benefits of the inflation reduction act and transitioning away from fossil fuels towards a clean energy

41:45

future thank you that was that was fantastic

41:52

um so we know the Canadian government is an active powerful Advocate on be behalf of

41:58

Enbridge what you know what is the posture of our Administration and you

42:04

know what what positions are they taking well you know we've we've seen

42:10

some conflicting views from the administration right now on Line 5 right I'm just as RI laid out the Amicus

42:17

brief that we saw from the administration while included some positive aspects naming the climate

42:23

pieces of this project naming Enbridge you know as a as a bad actor ultimately we have not seen the type of action from

42:31

the Biden Harris Administration on Line 5 that that we hope to see and a lot of that continues to be the conflicting

42:38

views within the administration on what we should be prioritizing you know climate versus National Security and

42:43

ultimately um those positions those conflicting positions are are not new

42:51

you know in a in another case right before the weeks and the months leading up to the Biden Administration directing

42:56

the department of energy to pause any new approvals for liquefied natural gas

43:02

export authorization we saw conflicting views within the administration on whether we should

43:09

support such a pause or what we should do to stop the unfettered buildout of LG exports and ultimately it was climate

43:15

versus National Security and I think in the case that we saw there you know the administration did the right thing put a

43:23

pause on those new authorizations while the department of energy updates the process by which to make LG exports in

43:30

the public interest and I think we our efforts while they continue to be an uphill battle are just the same you know

43:35

we know the case for Line 5 is clear the risks associated with this pipeline

43:43

whether it be the climate environmental justice or treaty rights um we believe far outweigh any sort of National

43:48

Security implications and ultimately we don't really believe there are any national security implications when this

43:54

pipeline is being used to transport from one end of Canada to another what benefit is it actually providing to us

44:01

in the United States besides prolonging the of of fossil fuels thank you RI I'm going to come

44:07

back to you but before I do there's an audience question has any consideration been given to requesting

44:15

courts to order Enbridge to put in escrow enough funds to clean up after a spill in The Lakes just want

44:22

everyone to know that Governor Whitmer and Dana Nessel and the director

44:28

of the Department of Natural Resources have all made a demand to Enbridge the

44:34

parent company who is not the owner of the pipeline to directly indemnify

44:40

the state in the event of a spill um and to name the state as a co-insured on

44:46

whatever policies insurance policies they have Enbridge refused to do

44:54

either of those things Riyaz embd has interposed the 1977

45:01

treaty as as um an you know a

45:06

barrier to moving forward in the litigation or as a legal issue taking

45:12

the position that that treaty ensures the free flow of hydrocarbons back and

45:18

forth between Canada in the United States the you know the the Department of

45:25

Justice makes much of respecting the sovereignty of Nations why is the

45:31

Canadian treaty see seemingly have Primacy over the treaties with

45:39

indigenous nations in this country thank thank you Skip another excellent question the answer is that

45:46

the 1977 treaty is a matter of law does not have Primacy over tribal treaties

45:53

the law is very clear on this and judge Conley issued a nice ruling on this in in the Bad River case tribal

45:59

treaties may only be abrogated by by Congress and they may only be aggregated

46:05

by Congress where Congress is very clear that that's what it intends to do and

46:10

we have two sets of operative treaties that with respect to Line 5 one is

46:16

bad Rivers treaties that um that enshrined its reservation and gave it

46:23

dominion over its reservation and that preclude trespass of the sort that Enbridge is engaged in and then in

46:30

Michigan we have the 1836 Treaty of Washington which gives um the tribes secure to the

46:36

tribes fishing rights in the Straits of ma and and land rights in exchange

46:42

for millions of Acres of of session the Congress has never abrogated either

46:49

treaty the 1977 pipeline treaty says not one word about tribes or tribal treaty rights so

46:55

that treaty does not abgate the tribes treaty rights and and so judge

47:01

Conley was exactly right in saying that these arguments based on the 1977

47:07

pipeline treaty do not override the the tribal rights at play and one of our

47:15

disappointments in the United States in its briefing is that it just did not come out and say that that very

47:21

clearly thank you um there's a question when should we see a court date in the

47:27

Michigan courts I think you may have answered that yeah I saw I saw a few

47:33

and as always they're just excellent questions in in these webinars I saw a few questions related to Court

47:40

proceedings um details I didn't get into on the Michigan front we don't have

47:46

fixed deadlines as I said I think Judge Jamo will call for a supplemental briefing

47:52

or the parties themselves may ask for supplemental briefing on this core question in the Attorney General's case

47:58

which is whether the issuance of the pipeline easement in the first instance violated the public trust

48:03

Doctrine and then Enbridge's defenses and I know people get very frustrated with the legal system and how long

48:10

things take my guess and these are very rough U is that the briefing on those

48:15

issues if there supplemental briefing will play out over two three four months

48:20

uh after the case returns to State Court Judge Jamo Who's a very good careful judge

48:25

will then likely hold a hearing and and will then issue a decision so if you

48:32

add all that up you know one could be talking four five six seven months something like that before we start

48:40

getting decisions on on on the merits thank you thank you Mahyar um a

48:48

question from the audience what support have we received from Pete Buttigieg who is a local Traverse City resident here from

48:54

uh the transportation department it's a great question so I

48:59

mean ultimately Pete Buttigieg as the as the Secretary of Transportation you know his

49:05

his Department his agency sort of oversees fimsa as we talked about right

49:13

the pipeline and hazardous material safety administration the really lead Agency for overseeing pipeline safety um

49:19

and ultimately at this point you know they they our efforts with them have continued to be an uphill battle I mean

49:25

we've seen that fimsa um say that they don't really have you know

49:30

jurisdiction to deal with shutting down a pipeline and ultimately um you

49:39

know I think we have concerns around how thima views handling a pipeline failure

49:48

and and what does actually a failure look like in a leak look like and and ultimately um I think for us you know we

49:53

believe that that federal agencies should have mitigation measures in

50:01

place to avoid a pipeline spill and have plans in place to avoid a pipeline spill not just respond when a pipeline has

50:06

already failed so ultimately I think we have we have some work to do in terms of

50:12

our advocacy with with fima and and ultimately um secretary Butiegieg as as as

50:19

as head and overseeing that entire agency um there is more there as well but you know in the past we have seen

50:27

secretary Butiegiegudge you know tweets support for shutting down Line 5 um I believe when when he was um for

50:32

president but we haven't really seen him address Line 5 since so I think

50:40

more more to come there and would welcome my colleagues to jump in as well Skip can I can I put a a a sharp point

50:46

on on what said from the from the litigation point of view which is I

50:52

think at present and everything Meer said is exactly right I think at present we have the worst of all worlds when it

50:58

comes to fimsa and the Department of Transportation and what the administration is The Stance is taking on these

51:04

issues because on the one hand fima is not actually doing anything to shut

51:10

down Line 5 or to ensure that we don't have a rupture at any one of these many locations where we could have a

51:15

rupture and on the other hand as we saw in our bad River case the

51:22

administration came in and argued that even though fimsa isn't doing anything that our Claim about the me or the

51:27

slides I showed that that claim is displaced that the shutdown order judge

51:33

Conley placed in the 5ot threshold um that that is improper as a matter of

51:41

law because fima has authority over these issues so the agency that's not

51:48

actually doing anything because they have theoretical Authority that means that the bad River Band can't take the

51:53

steps it's taken to protect itself there and another place where the

52:00

administration will now be put to the test will be here in Michigan Enbridge is arguing that that Michigan's claim

52:07

is preempted because of fim's Authority Under the pipeline safety act the Administration has not W waved in

52:14

weighed in on that yet and I think this is one area where public pressure and advocacy will be very important to

52:19

ensure that the administration doesn't end up arguing that what the Attorney General is doing and what governor

52:26

Whitmer has said are precluded by virtue of this theoretical Authority in fims of

52:32

that fza doesn't actually exercise thank you at the at the end

52:39

of this webinar we will talk about how citizens can engage in what they might be able to do to help help us move

52:46

forward on this Sean um can you talk about the Great Lakes business Network there's over 200 companies now that are

52:52

are signed up and are committed to try to help and use their influence to shut

52:58

down Line 5 who is the who's the Great Lakes business Network how is it

53:03

formed and where are they going yeah so the Great Lakes business network is

53:10

you know really excellent Coalition of businesses mainly here in Michigan a lot of our really important industries

53:15

here in the state are represented everything from farms and you know

53:22

especially some of our Cherry Farmers up north who are bearing the brunt of the impacts of climate change this

53:27

year with you know the unfortunate Cherry Harvest that we had um

53:34

as well as some of Michigan's breweries all sorts of different industries that rely on the Great Lakes

53:41

for water and these businesses came together you know again about a decade ago when people really started um

53:47

organizing and agitating around Line 5 um and they've been a very important part of our coalition to

53:53

you know raise the voice of Michigan businesses when um you know so often

53:58

this gets painted as a business versus the environment thing when really it's

54:04

one giant bully of a corporation um against the people of several States the

54:09

indigenous tribes of several States and importantly the business Community the

54:17

people who you know I think of um folks like um folks like Belle's Brewery and

54:24

uh Cherry Republic and some of the other great partners of Great Lakes business Network who have um you know started

54:30

really good successful businesses that bring great things to our communities we need business we don't need businesses

54:36

like Enbridge who take advantage of our people we need businesses like folks in the Great Lakes business network so

54:43

everybody should check them out and when you can you know please frequent these folks they're you know really great Partners in this fight and they

54:50

put you know they lead with their values and value our state and our natural

54:57

resources thank you Sean um RI a question has been asked Liz

55:02

commented that closing Line 5 would not cause fuel shortages and we could

55:08

avoid Spike price spikes with appropriate planning can you talk

55:15

about the experts report that that you developed with your team and what it

55:21

concluded sure so I'll do my and I see that there a fair number of questions about Oil and Propane Supply I'll do my

55:29

best in a very short amount of time to summarize where the expert evidence came out at our trial in in the bad River

55:36

case and what I want to emphasize really are two points because we hear a lot about how if Line 5 shuts down that

55:42

will cause massive price increases shortages hardships both in Canada

55:48

and for people in the upper Upper Peninsula the evidence the

55:53

uncontroverted expert evidence demonstrates I think unequivocally that

55:59

none of that is true um with and I'll Focus first on oil crude oil with two

56:07

simple steps and this with two simple steps the the vast bulk of the crude

56:13

oil um that's supplied by Line 5 could easily be replaced so even if one's goal and I want to be clear about

56:20

this even if one's goal is to replace every drop of oil that's supplied by Line 5 so even if one thought that

56:25

was good public policy to keep burning all the oil that can be done and the markets would do it and the two simple

56:32

steps are there are there's over 100,000 barrels a day of excess

56:38

capacity on end Bridges line 78 which runs in Saria into into the same

56:44

point U from the same beginning Point that's unused capacity and secondly

56:51

uh two refineries in Quebec which receive a great bulk of Line 5 oil already take oil in the St Lawrence

56:56

Seaway by tanker and could take more which they did until 2016 when Enbridge

57:03

reversed its line its line n pipeline this is not coming from me or our

57:10

experts but from em this the other point I want to stress from Enbridge's expert at trial and in an expert report prior

57:16

to trial was very clear that those are two mechanisms that can be used to

57:23

replace the great bulk of the oil and this is why that expert and again this is Enbridge's expert not not not not not

57:29

not ours Neil Earnest testified that if fine f were to shut down the net effect

57:37

on prices in Michigan and Wisconsin which would be the two most affected States would be half a cent to one cent

57:44

per gallon of gasoline I want to repeat that half a cent to one cent a gallon that's obviously an amount that is lost

57:51

in the noise of daily fluctuations in in gasoline prices and the reason why he said that is because what I just said

57:56

there are replacement mechanisms there also a robust network of refined oil

58:03

pipelines in in this country so the the scare stories are are are not true propane is a separate issue and what um

58:09

Mr Ernest testified there and of course you know in Michigan we all have concerns about the Upper Peninsula and

58:15

residents there that within six months for the investment of $5 million one can

58:22

build rail offloading terminals that would offl offload the amount of propane

58:27

necessary you could build two or three of those terminals in the in the upper peninsula to replace the Line 5

58:32

supply of propane which is not large in in volume in in the upper peninsula rail

58:40

is the principal means by which propane is imported from Canada so this is not some radical new idea um so there

58:46

again that you know the facts um undermine any sense that Western

58:52

Civilization will come to an end if if Line 5 is shut down last thing I'll say on that is there's an excellent

58:58

report for anyone who's interested in the facts by The Professional Logistics Group which is an industry group of

59:04

Consultants that was put together after our trial that summarizes all the

59:11

various ways in which the market would replace um the supply of both crude oil and and and propane and I think a link

59:17

to that may be available or could be provided on the on the flow

59:24

website yeah so the pipeline Network in North America is such that we could easily reroute and recalibrate the

59:31

system and make up for any shortfalls I just stepping back

59:37

recall that when Russia invited invaded the Ukraine there were Global

59:42

reports of the consequence that would follow to European nations with

59:50

shortages of gas and and Fuel and oil and that entire European system was able

59:56

to recalibrate in a period of months and avoid those those shortcomings okay I

1:00:03

have a question all of any all of you can jump in on this so the so the

1:00:11

great L system is the most extraordinary most valuable fresh water fresh surface

1:00:21

water system in the world Bar None and Michigan sits at the heart of it the Straits sit at the heart of the system

1:00:27

um what what do we know about the dispersion model that has been done what

1:00:34

I mean by that if if there is a failure of Line 5 if the pipeline is breached

1:00:41

what happens to the oil and and then what happens to the coastal communities

1:00:49

the businesses that are water dependent the drinking water supplies in the area that sort of

1:00:57

thing Sean you w to take it first

1:01:04

um well Skip I I'm sorry actually my my screen froze for a second at the end of your question can you just repeat the

1:01:09

end just what what is the consequence of a Line 5 failure in terms of the

1:01:15

oil released and how it moves from Lake hon to Lake Michigan and how Coastal

1:01:20

communities would be affected drinking water supplies in the area that sort of thing okay excellent thank you that's

1:01:27

what I thought you were getting at um so to begin with you know Enbridge claim

1:01:34

that they can shut down or that once they initiate shutdown it takes three minutes to complete shutdown on top of

1:01:40

that they claim that they can detect a pressure drop Etc and have that all

1:01:46

sorted within 20 minutes so according to them the minimum time that we're talking a pipeline would be running during an

1:01:53

oil spill is about 23 minutes a pipeline that runs roughly a million gallons an hour running for 23 minutes creates a

1:02:00

very large oil spill and again this is the company that let the kalamazo pipeline or the line 6B in cazo run for

1:02:07

17 hours um so I think a charitable estimate of a spill size um if that were

1:02:14

to run for let's say an hour would be about a million gallons um if they're spilling a million gallons one of the

1:02:19

big problems that we have with the pipelines location in The Straits is that Lake Huron and Lake Michigan are

1:02:25

one body of water they slash back and forth at the Straits of MAA um so at the

1:02:32

peak flow water through the Straits we're talking 10 times the flow over Niagara Falls moving through the

1:02:39

Straits of minena a lot of water it moves very quickly and it changes Direction the flow of the water changes

1:02:45

Direction 180 degrees with the Lakes going back and forth on average every one to three days um so it's a very

1:02:51

volatile part of the Great Lakes ecosystem um now theoretically if you

1:02:59

were to try to clean up an oil spill and I say theoretically because the best the oil industry has ever done um in

1:03:06

cleaning up a spill in Open Water has been to clean up about 20% of the total

1:03:12

volume spilled um they consider 30% of any oil spill to be a very successful

1:03:18

cleanup um now so theoretically if they were able to get all of to have

1:03:24

everything in place when an oil spill happens which we know they don't have right now and be able to get

1:03:31

everything out there they could try to Ain this the problem is the skimmers and the booms and the other technology that

1:03:38

they have for cleaning up an oil spill is only effective in three foot waves or less so any waves over three feet

1:03:47

you're pretty much out of luck and we'd be left with oil spreading um for as much as 7 as over 700 miles of Great

1:03:52

Lakes Shoreline in the case of a 1 million gallon spill um so you know that

1:03:59

would be absolutely devastating for the Great Lakes some the initial impacts would be um that you know it would

1:04:04

impact the water intakes for MAA Island and for other communities in

1:04:12

The Straits region um this would threaten the drinking water for you know pretty much everyone who relies on

1:04:18

a drinking water source from Lake Michigan in northern Michigan um so

1:04:23

the effects here would be really catastrophic um when we think about the possibility of an oil spill at The

1:04:30

Straits and it's also important I think to clude that even if the tunnel was a perfect plan which again we know it's

1:04:37

not we're talking about a 4 half mile Band-Aid on a 645 mile problem the whole

1:04:43

pipeline is 20 years past its intended lifespan and there's places where that pipeline runs especially through the

1:04:50

Upper Peninsula where it's running right along the shore of Lake Michigan and over rivers and a spill from there

1:04:57

could be almost as devastating as a spill in the middle of The Straits I just might add on that the the thickness

1:05:03

of the pipeline the submerged pipeline that crosses the straight is 8200s of an

1:05:09

inch the rest of the 640 miles of pipeline is one4 of an inch slightly

1:05:15

less than one4 of an inch so it's 72 years old and much thinner so thank you

1:05:23

so much that was so enlightening really appreciate it turning this back over to Liz and

1:05:30

Sean thanks Skip thank thank you Raz Mahyar um Sean and I are going to just um

1:05:38

go back and forth and share some citizen actions for you to take now and then

1:05:44

to continue to engage so Sean I'll let you lead the way yeah thank you um so

1:05:50

first of all we you know really need all hands on deck there's things going on all the time with oil and water don't

1:05:55

mix we have um in fact a day of action we have days of action just about

1:06:03

every month we also have a monthly volunteer campaign call um which happens on the first Tuesday evening of every

1:06:08

month so go to our website oil andwater don't. org sign up to volunteer get on

1:06:15

those monthly volunteer calls so you can find out what's happening in your area and come support and help us out

1:06:20

it's it's t it took a Grassroots Army to get to the point where Governor Whitmer revoked the easement and it's going to

1:06:26

take all of us pushing to to keep this on the right track I I just add to what Sean said is

1:06:33

that we know that each of you have your own gifts and you can volunteer volunteer in incredible ways and it

1:06:39

doesn't you don't need to be an engineer or you know Communications expert um

1:06:46

it's we we the incredible power of the people has been transformative in this

1:06:52

campaign um as you know we are in in the height of the election season and

1:06:59

showing up with to any kind of candidate events and rallies with Line 5 signs and merch would be awesome

1:07:04

and you can order this online and we're going to provide a link right there um

1:07:11

on your

1:07:19

screen Don back to you thank you Liz and another um I yeah so another option

1:07:25

that we have on the oil and water don't miix site again you can sign our petition to our secretary of

1:07:33

transportation and again Traverse City resident Pete Buddha judge we're asking him to use his role at dot to

1:07:39

do more to shut down Line 5 and back to you Liz thanks and

1:07:46

through August 30th you can submit your comments to the Army Corps about emd's

1:07:52

Wisconsin 41 mile reroute of the pipeline proposal and this is important

1:07:57

it doesn't matter if you're a Wisconsin citizen or not Michigan residents can

1:08:06

weigh in and um you can see here on your screen we've got the link to um to

1:08:15

sign and submit your your um comments and we would encourage you to take this

1:08:22

action and ask three people you know to to also submit their comments um we will

1:08:31

send all of these actions to you a follow-up email in casee you have not gotten it so have no fear and like

1:08:38

Sean said this um the most important thing is to continue to stay engaged

1:08:46

because the advocacy um continues and your voice is fundamental to Our Success

1:08:53

so um we are um I I want to just end by personally thanking um each and every

1:08:58

one of you for your outstanding questions and commitment a special

1:09:04

thanks to our amazing amazing panelists and moderator for sharing their

1:09:11

experience and deep knowledge on this matter to inspire us to work together for the future of the Great Lakes and a

1:09:17

huge thank you to The Mackinac Island Community Foundation who made this webinar possible we're going to follow

1:09:23

up with you the next week with the links to recording of the webinar and related resources and of course the Line 5

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actions that you can take and share we have a small favor to ask we just

1:09:35

would ask you to fill out a brief survey that's going to pop up at the end of the webinar and also be available in the

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email and please know that we we really really care so much about your responses

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because it helps us develop future Great Lakes webinar webinars and other programming so I want to leave you with

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this final thought which is that you know our movement to shutdown Line 5

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is growing stronger because of you and your commitment to take action and spread the word today we've had over 700

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people register for this webinar and countless others who will watch it on

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demand over the next coming weeks and months while Line 5 continues to wind

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its way through the court system it's it's more important than ever before for you to voice your opinion in a showing

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of solidarity with state of Michigan and the tribes to protect our rights to water and continue to educate your

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friends F neighbors family because the will of the people will influence the

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future of Line 5 collectively our voices matter in this fight to protect

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the great lake and I hope you come away from today's event feeling more knowledgeable empowered and motivated

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for change we also hope that you'll consider donating to flow and to oil and

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water don't mix your support helps us continue our legal and advocacy work in

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this campaign to shut down Line 5 and get the oil out of the Great Lakes we thank you again for attending and taking action to protect the Great Lakes and we hope to see you again soon thank you